THINKWELL
AGEWELL
The Ayurvedic Approach to Inflammation, Brain Health, and Aging Well
AGEWELL
The Ayurvedic Approach to Inflammation, Brain Health, and Aging Well
Dr. Shivani Gupta joins Dr. Heather Sandison to explore chronic inflammation through the combined lenses of Ayurveda and modern integrative health. Drawing from her training in Ayurvedic sciences and research on turmeric, Dr. Gupta describes how she thinks about the connections among stress, digestive health, sleep, daily rhythms, environmental exposures, and cognitive symptoms such as brain fog, poor focus, and word-finding difficulties.
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Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (00:00.861)
Welcome back to the Think Well, Age Well Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Heather Sandison. And today I’m excited to talk about something that sits at the center of so many conversations around health, longevity, and cognitive function. My guest today is Dr. Shivani Gupta. She’s an Ayurvedic practitioner, researcher, author, and expert at the intersection of ancient healing traditions and modern science.
Dr. Gupta’s interest in Ayurveda began with her own experience of chronic illness and ultimately led her to earn a master’s in Ayurvedic Sciences and a PhD focused on turmeric. She is the author of The Inflammation Code, where she brings together Ayurvedic wisdom and functional medicine to help people like you and I understand and address the chronic inflammation that contributes to pain, metabolic dysfunction, autoimmune symptoms, accelerated aging.
And often cognitive decline. Today we’re gonna explore what happens when inflammation becomes chronic, how our stress, gut health, sleep, and daily rhythms will influence inflammation over the course of our lives, and what Ayurveda can teach us about protecting our brain and body as we age. Shivani, welcome to Think Well Age Well. I am delighted to have you here.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (01:16.472)
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (01:18.419)
I wanna start with your personal story. You came to Ayurveda through your experience with chronic illness. So what happened and how did you come to Aur come to Ayurveda or back to Ayurveda? Obviously, you’re South Asian. Help us understand what you didn’t find in the conventional system or elsewhere, and and how you how like tell us about that journey.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (01:41.529)
You know, I grew up living in two worlds. I grew up where in the US, when I got sick, so I I’m from Houston, Texas. So when I’d get sick, we’d just go to the pediatrician, they’d write a prescription for antibiotics, you’d take them, eventually you’d get over your cold and everything else you had, and you’d be better. And when I’d go to India, my grandma would always just open up her spice cabinet.
She’d be like, turmeric for this and ginger for that. And we have a lot of different unique spices in our Indian culture in the Indian kitchen. And she’d be like, this will heal your gut, you’ll be fine. And so I always thought, who’s right? I’m going to both sides here for health. And one fixes me and I feel better. And the other fixes me and I do feel better. So I don’t know yet. And by the time I got to college, I had ended up taking antibiotics way too many times. I think it was on a monthly basis.
And no one was really tracking maybe this thing could cause harm. And so I’m in college, I go to India. And by this point, I tried to be really careful in India. I would eat well, not drink the water, like pay attention. But somehow I got Montezuma’s revenge, India style, again. It was probably some chutney or something like that. And I thought, gosh, like I’m done for. They’re gonna give me antibiotics again. And I go in the doctor’s office and he prescribes antibiotics and 12 medications.
And some voice inside of me came screaming out and was like, hold on one second. What are we giving me exactly? Because I had kind.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (03:05.257)
Was it steroids? Like where where did they give you an addition to antibiotics for traveler’s diarrhea?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (03:10.272)
Exactly. It was 12 medications for symptoms, right? Like an anti nausea, anti-vomiting, anti like, let’s just keep everything inside this girl kind of cocktail. But the voice inside of me was like, no, no, no. And so I looked at him and I said, Can you dumb that antibiotic down a couple of notches? I think you guys are using very strong drugs on me. Secondly, you forgot a probiotic. Third of all, I’m not taking the 12 for symptoms. Let’s approach symptoms a different way.
And so my mom looked at me, she’s like, You don’t talk to a doctor that way. That’s so disrespectful. And I was like, you know, this I have to take care of my health. I can’t trust anyone anymore for my health. I have to go figure this out. And so when I walked out of there, I looked at her and I said, You know, we’re living in this land of yoga and Ayurveda in India. And I think it has something for me. And I need to go figure this out. And she’s like, Well, I’m not gonna let you roam India alone. So I guess we’re doing this journey together.
And we went north, south, east, west. We went all over India to the Ayurvedic centers. And I just sat at the feet of the gurus. And my question was: can you heal me? Can you fix me? Because I don’t understand what to do here. And that’s when I realized India is sitting on this treasure trove called Ayurveda, this ancient wisdom. And those Ayurvedic centers were full of people who are Westerners.
German. It was like a the whole world had showed up and understood the power of what Ayurveda could do for you. And I was like, how did I not apply this to myself this whole time? So I healed my gut. I learned my body constitution. I learned the self-care rituals from Ayurveda. And I really became such a super fan of it, a student of it. And I thought, let me take this wisdom and figure out how to teach it in a way that all of us in the West will apply it.
Because the problem is Ayurveda’s vast and deep. And it’s, I could do my master’s degree a hundred times and I’d still be scratching the surface of what that wisdom is. But I thought I am born in America. I think I can figure this out and bring it to us in a way that we can apply it. And then now, fast forward decades later, that I’ve been teaching Ayurveda, I am a woman in midlife who’s like, gosh, we needed this wisdom so bad for this moment.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (05:25.048)
I’m so glad I teach this and practice this and have resilience and such vibrant health so that I can teach this to the world.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (05:32.913)
I love Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your vulnerability and and sharing about your own personal journey. You use the term inflammation in your book. What is inflammation to you and how does this low grade chronic inflammation change how we age, particularly when it comes to the brain?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (05:52.479)
For sure. So I wrote my book, The Inflammation Code, that just published in this last year. And my dream was thank you, thank you. I you know what it means to write a book and the work it takes. So thank you. And you’ve been a beautiful guide on that journey. and so as I’ve written and shared that book, my goal was for everyone to understand the role inflammation plays. Now, in this moment, we are talking about inflammation more. People are more aware of it, but I think we still
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (05:58.12)
Is that the reason?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (06:21.122)
don’t fully understand it. And so most of the time when people find me, they’ll say, you know, I’m really struggling. I’ve got brain fog, I’ve got this joint pain, whether it’s their hip, knee, back, they’ve got this pain in their bodies. They say, I’ve got indigestion, like something’s wrong with my digestion. I eat and something is wrong. I’m either bloating or something is off there. I don’t have the same energy. I don’t have the same memory. I walk into a room and forget things like this brain fog is real and I can’t remember names and
mid sentence, I forget what I’m talking about and have to, I can’t reach for those names that I used to have always parked in my mind. And so I always say, look, when we start to have that feeling of something is off, instead of saying this is aging, I guess that’s just what it is, I want you to pause. And whenever your brain says this is aging, pause and say, no, no, no, this is inflammating. It’s inflammation that’s wreaking havoc inside of me. I’m not going to assume this is aging and just assume that this is
the the sentence I have now for the rest of my life. And I have to just live with this. And I myself do this. I’ll have a a day sometimes where I’ll be so tired. My sleep will have been off and I’ll be like, is this aging? And that’s the sentence that really like wakes my mind up and says, no, no, no, let’s pause and look at this. And I think that helps because oftentimes we’re not catching these symptoms that come along until they really start to stack up. And so when we talk about brain health, brain health happens to be a
Personal obsession of mine. That’s why I’ve always been so interested in your work, because we want to keep a brain that is flourishing, that is vibrant, that is working well all the way through the end of our life. And I find it disturbing that two-thirds of all Alzheimer’s patients are women. I find it disturbing that it’s called type three diabetes. I come from a family of all diabetics.
And so growing up, what I saw when I went to India was all the grandparents, all the aunts and uncles. And then now I see it in my generation, family struggling with diabetes and the after effects of that heart attack, stroke, leg amputation. And I watched this pattern and thought, okay, so you’re telling me my job is to go to school, be successful, work hard, end up obese, diabetic, sick, and that’s the end game in the last quarter of life, guys.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (08:40.622)
I was like, some formula is not working for us in this family. I’m gonna go find a better way. And so Ayurveda really shows us that a lifestyle put in place around truly living an anti-inflammatory lifestyle or a longevity-focused lifestyle can change that whole equation. And so in Ayurveda and in the book, I talk about living a circadian lifestyle, focusing on gut health as the center of all health. And modern science has proven the circadian clock to be true.
Modern science has proven that there’s a gut brain access and gut microbiome, and we do need to honor the gut as the center of all health. IRV that talks about a sothvic diet, a diet where we truly honor how we eat and when we eat, not just what we eat, because we’re all gonna have different diets that support us at different life phases. IRV that talks about self-care rituals that are detoxing on a daily basis.
To reduce what we call ama or this toxin burden that accumulates in our body over time. And we know that toxin burdens relate to the brain as well. Then Ayurveda teaches about our individual mind-body constitution. Ayurveda called that the doshas, and in my book I renamed it elemental design, because I wanted everyone to understand how it really encompasses our whole life. And then finally, Ayurveda talks a lot about herbs and spices, because herbs and spices are very powerful botanicals.
And we can use them in a very targeted precision way to get the support we need while we’re still working to build that beautiful lifestyle that’ll help us when it comes to the inflammation and the inflammation.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (10:15.967)
You know, kind of at a high level with inflammation, it serves us in some cases, when it’s not a runaway train, right? So how do people determine when inflammation is something we want to resolve or suppress, or if the real issue is our inability to turn it off? And and when are there when is there a context where it’s like something we actually want to support?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (10:40.91)
It’s a great question. Inflammation is a good response from the body. We do talk about it like it’s only the enemy. But yes, when, for example, if I’m at the gym and I tear something or I hurt something, we’re gonna see redness, swelling, pain all of a sudden. And the body’s gonna send an inflammatory response there. And you want it to. You want the body to say, okay, there’s inflammation. Let’s really let the immune cells go in and do their healing and do their job. I might use ice.
Some people use NSAIDs. I only use turmeric. Some people might use different solutions that exist to really get that inflammation down. But once that inflammation has gone down and we’ve gone back to normal, we’re fine. The problem is we’re living through this time of such toxin burden and it’s so multifactorial. So I always talk about inflammation being caused by the environmental toxins, including heavy metals, pesticides, herbicides, what’s in our water, what’s in our air.
For some, it could be mold in their homes. I’m going through that journey after last year. And so environmental toxins can really pile up. Some that you would never see or realize are in your environment. Then it’s our food supply. Right now, our food supply isn’t as nourishing as it should be. We’re not getting the vitamins and minerals we should. Instead, it’s laden with pesticides, herbicides. I mean, there’s so many things in the environment, phthalates, so many things. I can’t even like remember them all. Heavy metals. I feel like the food supply is so.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (12:07.517)
I mean the list is long, right? Hundreds of tho or well, at least tens of thousands of toxins and yeah, infections. It’s wild to think about.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (12:10.894)
Parasites.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (12:17.074)
Exactly. And then you move on into what are we eating? Are we eating a more ultra-processed diet? Are we eating some of the seed oils that don’t serve us as opposed to those healthy fats? Then stress alone can cause inflammation in the system. And we’re living through a society where our own mental stress is oftentimes the cause of that physical stress. In my book, I called it mental inflammation because I thought, gosh, we don’t have a term. We just think stress is bad.
And how can someone tell me to stress less? Stressing less is difficult. I’m gonna keep piling things on the plate and life is gonna keep bringing what it brings me. But if we have this awareness that when I get really stressed out, I’m going to cause a physical stress response, then we kind of have this opportunity in any moment to say, you know what? I’m not gonna let this stress take over and harm me from the inside. And so that’s where we start to talk about that chronic, low-grade, persistent inflammation that so many of us suffer from, and it’s coming from.
all these different factors that are external and some internal, right? If we’re carrying our own traumas and issues from the inside and our own mental health and mental inflammation struggles. And that adds up to the type of inflammation that’s really damaging from the inside. And so that’s the kind that I’m always trying to talk to people about and say, look, we’re all at some level dealing with chronic inflammation. And the problem is when that when you start to look at that 10, 20, 30 years down the road from where you are, 50, 60, 70s beyond,
That’s where we start to see those end game type damages that you don’t want to try to have to reverse. They’re much harder.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (13:49.712)
This mental inflammation concept, I I really loved that idea and and the terminology there because it wasn’t a way that I had thought about it before. And what it made me think of was: can the reverse happen too? Right? We know that the stress, overwhelm, worry can translate into measurable physiological inflammation and and and we we see the results at the cellular level. But also inflammation in the body, right? The chronic pain.
And that feeling of of it inflammation, right, that a lot of times creeps up on people, it also changes how we think, feel, respond, and our capacity levels. And so it it really, I and I love that about our Uveda, right? Is that it’s this, it’s this, there’s these feedback loops and it’s a much more complex system that actually I think is a model that more closely approximates the reality, right, thanks, say can conventional medicine.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (14:47.566)
True. And you know, any of the integrative modalities are looking at the body as a whole, right? Whether it comes to traditional Chinese medicine, naturopathic medicine, chiropractic medicine, we’re all looking at the system saying this is mind, body, spirit. It’s not just a physical body and our mental health. It’s all interconnected. There’s even energetics involved here. And so when we look at the body and understand that yes, it can be top-down, but really more of the time it’s bottom up.
And we’ve seen that work with polyvagel theory. If you’ve read books by Mastin Kip and some of the incredible practitioners in our space, they talk about how if our body is under that stress, it is going to affect affect mental health. We know if gut health is off, brain health, mental health will be off. And so anytime my teenage daughter comes to me and says, This friend has anxiety, I’m like, we should look at the gut. And she’s like, I’m sick of that answer from you, mom. And I’m like, Well, it’s the truth. If we can heal the gut and win, that is the easiest path through.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (15:18.74)
Hmm.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (15:45.484)
compared to going a ton of therapy, which of course I love therapy. I think it’s super effective. But, you know, if we can win at gut health and really shift brain, why wouldn’t we go at it from that direction? Yeah.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (15:54.61)
It affects everything. Right. We we really cannot talk about inflammation and brain health without talking about the gut. It would be a disservice, right? Both from an Ayurvedic perspective, but also modern science is finally catching up to that. So tell me, yeah, like what do how do you think about the gut brain access, not just as it relates to anxiety, depression, but what about cognitive resilience?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (16:16.428)
You know, when we talk about gut in Ayurveda, we think of it as your gut digestive fire, this fire that lives inside of you. And these fires are your gut fire, your brain fire, your nervous system fire. Everything has a fire or a metabolism or an energy to it. And once you understand that with gut, we think of it like a campfire. So let’s say you were going camping and you went out and you wanted to find the right branches. You would find small, medium, and large. That’s gut microbiome diversity.
You wouldn’t find just one kind. You would build a boundary around it. That’s your gut lining. You would really honor that we don’t want this fire to spread everywhere in all directions. When you go to build this fire, you’re gonna do it honoring that this campfire is gonna serve you. You’re gonna cook on it. You’re gonna use this for your nourishment and nutrition, which is what our gut does for us. And when you use that gut digestive fire, you’re probably gonna not let it burn all day long, 24-7, snacking and trying to heat food every minute.
You’re gonna eat your two or three square meals a day. In Ayurveda, we teach about the three square meals. We teach intermittent fasting is very important. And really honor building a healthy campfire. Because without one, are you gonna digest your food? Are you gonna benefit from it? Are you gonna get any nourishment? No. And once that ugni is robust again, which modern day life, I find, is always trying to find ways to create gut dysbiosis.
That battle between the good and bad bacteria can oftentimes be really off, and we don’t even know it if we aren’t doing proper stool testing to really discover what’s going on. But let’s say you understand how to build this gut digestive fire and honor it with the prebiotics and the probiotics and the fiber and the good diversity of your food. In Ayurveda, we teach about circadian diet, eating a seasonal diet, because our food receives that food the best in the proper season on a local basis, which
That’s a whole conversation of how are we sourcing our food and where on the planet is it coming from, within what season, and are we really meant to absorb that food? Well, if we’re eating so out of season all the time. But once you build that campfire, the goal is that when Shivani eats a meal, that it’s balanced, that it has all the taste, it has all the nutrition, and that the body’s then gonna turn it into OGS. OGS is what we teach as the byproduct. It’s this resilient nectar of vitality that we have.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (18:37.356)
And so as we age, oftentimes gut dysbiosis, stressors, inflammation, different factors can come along, surgery, trauma, anything big that happens, and throw you off your pedestal. And you know in your body when you’re like, I don’t feel good anymore. I don’t feel that glow, that vitality, something is off. I don’t feel the same. I don’t feel as sharp. In Ayurveda, we teach you just go back to the campfire, rebuild each aspect of a healthy gut.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (18:48.457)
Yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (19:04.438)
And that again will give you that vitality and resilience that you want to.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (19:09.927)
I love it. Yeah, what a great analogy. Before someone has obvious cognitive changes happening, are there more subtle signs that inflammation might already be affecting the brain? Either like brain fog, word-finding difficulty, fatigue, irritability, mood changes, poor focus. What symptoms do you pay attention to that might that might trigger you to think through this inflammation process as contributing?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (19:36.761)
You know, you just named them all. All of those descriptions you gave were all the symptoms that I hear. Women specifically share with me. They’re like, I can’t remember mid-sentence, they’ll stop and they can’t remember a specific word. Memory, can’t remember everything on the list of things to do. brain fog for sure. Just sitting there unable to focus, unable to figure out what is next that has to happen. Certainly irritability and these things you’re talking about are so common.
And so as soon as those symptoms or those struggles start to come up, I think it is time to pause and say, is inflammation playing a role? How is my gut health? Did something change recently that could have caused more inflammation in the system? Most people I’m talking to get their blood work done once a year. And I’m like, that is not enough, guys. We need more data on ourselves. I’m getting huge blood work done two or three times a year. And within a six month period, sometimes you can see a huge shift.
And so at least much earlier in the game, you can catch what is going on here. Is it a micronutrient shift? Is it vitamins and minerals? Where do you sit with your vitamin D levels? I mean, we really need to get a little more granular with our health because previously we could assume that our food and nature was just giving it all to us. And unfortunately, we’re not living in that time anymore. I tell people, I’m eating such a healthy diet. Like I literally instacart into my home everything organic and fresh.
And we only eat fresh food. One of the rules of Ayurveda is you don’t eat food past one day old. Nowadays we have a word for that, histamine. We talk about high histamine foods, meaning don’t eat after a day old. And most people are talking about let’s meal plan one day a week, let’s just cook it all on Sundays, then eat it for the next seven days. In Ayurveda, we teach that that’s dead food. It lacks prana, it lacks any good energy.
And when you put that in your body, your body’s gonna have a hard time digesting it. Imagine if I made food today and then a week from now I served it to you and it’s kind of dead and congealed and just not fresh anymore. And let’s say by chance I microwaved it on top of it, which I don’t let anyone use a microwave in my home. We’re only baking things or pan heating things. These are all little habits, but they can all add up to how we digest our food, how we absorb it, how we get the benefits.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (21:56.909)
Which is then going to all add up to contributing to our brain health, right? It’s all interconnected.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (22:00.989)
When you totally when you you know, like just that the visual that was coming up for me of you like serving me a plate of food that’s like gray and like sad, right? It’s obvious when you think through it. But this is a great example of something that I think modern longevity medicine kind of overlooks, right? There’s all these meal delivery services where things are being made on Sunday, yeah, and delivered on Wednesday and eaten on Friday. And like it’s kind of like
Dr. Shivani Gupta (22:12.449)
I know.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (22:29.755)
Ooh, like it it f it doesn’t give us that vitality. I’m curious for s other for people who don’t know much about Ayurveda, are there other things that Ayurveda kind of gets or teaches us about aging well or living well that modern longevity medicine and kind of like that biohacking culture s is still overlooking?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (22:52.942)
Absolutely. So Ayurveda teaches us we each have our own individual mind-body constitution. We are all different. And so once you know your individual body type, you can really navigate from that place. And so I have a quiz on my website at drshivani.com, and they can go on there and take the elemental design quiz. And people always email me back and they’re like, How did you know that about me? How did you know that as a fire type, that is the personality I have on the inside?
And it’s so illuminating because once you understand your type, you can leverage it. So for example, I am a fire type. I have a very strong digestive fire. That means I’m easily hangry all day long. I have to eat on time or you don’t want to know me. And it’s one of those things where you can lean into your traits versus if I were Vata or the more air type.
Then I’m probably not meant to cold plunge or do a lot of these things we’re talking about in modern biohacking as being amazing for everybody. And then if you’re a more earthy type as well, we’re not gonna put you into situations where we’re going to extremes. You’re meant to be constantly kind, like you would be to Mother Earth. And so when we’re talking about modern longevity and biohacking, I think we’re so excited about what’s new and technologically advanced.
And we’re forgetting that it’s all foundationally based in the same wisdom that all the ancient wisdoms talk about. We all talk about more time in sunlight, put your feet in the grass. So we’re buying all these devices for grounding that give us the sunlight benefits, that give us these shifts in our biology, when in fact going outside for free into Mother Nature gives us almost all of it. And it’s almost like we’re complicating it and making it way more expensive.
And adding these huge checklists into our lives in this search and this craving for longevity. And I’m a culprit of it too. I go to the conferences, I get excited, I buy the things. So I’m not saying it’s easy to say no to all the cool stuff. But what I am saying is if our search is for beautiful brain health, beautiful gut health, and beautiful vitality, that couldn’t be that can easily be achieved by understanding your body type, navigating from that.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (25:12.558)
place, living according to your circadian rhythm based on your individual design, and then building your lifestyle and self-care rhythms around that. Because it’s it is that simple. It can be easy. It doesn’t have to be expensive and complicated.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (25:21.521)
Yeah.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (25:26.653)
Right, right. It’s like that. Okay, you’re looking at a $2,000 red light and it’s like, well, do I watch the sunrise? Do I watch the sunset? You know, like how what are the other options? are you know, when we talk about making things more individualized and ha thinking through doshas and constitutions and our elemental type, are there principles that on the flip side you believe are essentially universal, regardless of constitution, like maybe circadian rhythm or daily rituals or
Something like that, right? Is there both?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (25:58.415)
Yes, there is. So, for example, everything I teach in the book actually applies to everybody. These are the real tenets and principles of Ayurveda that apply to all of us. We all should rise with the sun, set with the sun. We all should move in nature and allow nature to be our ultimate healer. We can all eat well and really focus on gut health. So a lot of it is universal. One thing I find interesting right now, as I hit the midlife transition.
Is this conversation around circadian shifts of menopause that I’m trying to bring forward? Because if we understand the circadian shift of life, we can really understand the menopause transition better and it can support us with brain health as well. So in IRV that we teach that the first piece of your life, first almost third of your life, for section alcoholics, it’s not a whole third, is your kuffa time of life. So birth till about puberty, initial years, is growing, building your bones. It’s the earthy time of your life.
Then once that’s done, puberty till about 50 is what we call the bitta time of life, the fire time. That’s when you’re gonna build your career and your marriage, your relationships, everything you’re gonna be building, your family, all the stuff. It’s like metabolism, fire energy. During that time, we actually have great estrogen on board, supporting us to stay warmer and grounded and more supported. And then after that bitta time of life, let’s say 40s and 50s nowadays and beyond, that midlife transition onwards into post-menopause.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (27:07.389)
Your family, yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (27:27.234)
That’s the vatta season of life. And vattha’s traits, interestingly, are dryness, cold, movement. It’s also variability and change. It’s energy and movement. And so the vatta traits correlate really interestingly to the vatta symptoms that we experience in perimenopause and menopause. And we can even correlate these to the brain. So what are we seeing? We’re seeing more anxiety, insomnia.
Dryness in all areas. Everyone’s like my hair, skin, my eyes, vaginal dryness, everything just changed. My hair too. Everything’s shifting. My bones, my joints, everything went dry all of a sudden. We’re seeing that our brain is having a hard time focusing. So the brain fog, the irritability, it’s like your brain is different every day. And you thought you slept well, but you’re just not sure what level of brain power you’re gonna get on that next day. And that’s a very vata type of idea.
Imagine if you were living in an earthquake zone and every day your house just moved a little bit, all of a sudden you’d have to find different approaches to managing your home life if that’s what you were gonna live through. And that’s what the season can look like. And so as we talk about brain health and really having a brain for longevity, I think it’s so important to understand how to balance the Vata season. I’m ready to call it the Vata syndrome of menopause. I’m like, we need to take it seriously. Yeah.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (28:47.432)
Yeah, but
Okay, let’s let’s talk about that. Because I think what I just heard you describe, and it made me like a little anxious even just thinking about moving into that phase of life, it like it was the dysfunctional vata stage, right? So what is a really functional postmenopausal vata stage of life look like?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (29:08.12)
So a balanced Vata person is energized. They’re light. They have so much beautiful movement and creativity. This is someone who always wants to get into different things. They’re they actually download the creative energy of the universe and bring it into life. And so when you look at the menopause stage that we have, it’s meant to be the wise woman stage. We’re meant to be empty nesters and free to just share our wisdom, pursue our wisdom, pursue our creative pursuits.
And that is a very vutta-like lifestyle. But a lot of times instead of entering that season with that attitude, we’re entering with the responsibility of teenagers, responsibility of eld responsibility of elder parents, careers that are still growing and in a different phase. So we’re in the pitta transition, heading towards vata, not wanting to be in the vutta phase of life yet, still trying to grow with fire, metabolism, and movement. And we’re like,
Why is everything variable and changing? We’re gonna control that as opposed to really nourishing and understanding how to ground in that energy and be vibrant. And so Ayurveda says the way to balance vata is the opposite of all those traits of dry, cold, variable. It’s grounding warmth, moisture, nourishment. And so if this season is like very, very much a struggle for you, a simple way to approach that is healthy fats in your diet.
healthy fats in every meal, more nourishing and grounding foods. You talk a lot about the ketogenic diet. It makes total sense because if we ground everyone’s energy, they’re gonna feel more supported in the system. Their energy will be more supported. We wanna get everyone out in Mother Earth, feet in the grass, use the grounding tools that we have. We wanna really support sleep with a deep focus on that sleep being healing. We know the gymphatic system clears overnight.
In what we call the bitta window, 10 to 2 at night. It’s very important. And so skipping that is really dangerous for our health. It’s detrimental. And so when you’re a Vata, I really talk about those three square meals, shutting off electronics in time, so we can make sure we get to sleep on time. So it’s simple habits, but building that structure really helps ground the Vata energy.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (31:26.877)
Yeah, this Arcadian biology, I wanna I wanna dive into that. And you just mentioned like the different times of the day and night and how they correspond to the doses. How talk us through like how does are you better think about the timing of sleep and meals and movement and light exposure? And how does that impact inflammation and and cognitive function? But maybe even just like generally, like what’s where? How do we think through this?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (31:51.277)
Yeah. Yeah. So we talk about it as different times of day correlate to those different elemental design types. So we teach that two to six during your day is your vutta time of day. So even two to six in the morning is a very light time of day. We teach waking up before six AM is the most beautiful time to do meditation, deep breathing, which we call pranayam, your morning prayers, journaling, all those things. So if you can rise with the sun and be up before six.
That is a very beautiful time for all of that. There’s a lightness to the day. Then we teach that six to 10 is more kuffa time of day. So waking up too late in the six to 10 window will actually make you more groggy and more tired. And a lot of people do, they sleep in and then they’re like, wait, why did I feel more tired from sleeping in? And so instead, we teach waking up as close to six as you can and then making sure you move your energy first thing in the morning. We teach exercise or yoga or walking first thing is the best time of day.
Then we teach 10 to 2 is the fire, bit the time of day. So 10 to 2, you’re meant to meet eat your biggest meal of the day. So typically lunch in that bigger window is meant to be hearty and bigger, not just some salad and chicken constitution. So cut chicken and salad idea. A lot of people eat salads for lunch because they’re trying to be healthy. And Ayurveda says, please don’t do that. Like eat your really robust meal at that time slot.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (33:14.943)
Then what if you need a nap after?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (33:17.078)
I know, I know that’s the only problem. So I eat a good meal, but I try to make it not full of too many carbs because then I’m gonna get sleepy and tired afterwards. But they’re basically saying don’t eat your biggest meal at dinner because oftentimes we get home and eat the biggest meal and then that messes up with our sleep. So make sure if you’re trying to get your calories in more during lunch and then a good amount at dinner, but not as much. And so let’s say 10 to two.
We also teach that your hardest to digest foods are easiest to digest when the sun is highest in the sky. So if you’re going to eat nuts and seeds, put those in that window of the 10 to 2 or close to it if possible. And then we teach that two to six is your vata time of day again. Distracted, it’s your time where it’s hard to do the bigger focused work. Your time to do that was really your morning into your afternoon. And so imagine after two, we’re all like, I need a treat, I need some coffee, I need a pick-me-up.
Everything’s going downhill in that time slot. And so instead of forcing yourself to do big work or focused work, a lot of times it’s better to do like your easy checklist items, your errands, your tasks that you need to get out of the way. And then six onwards, it’s really your guffa time of day, six to 10 PM. We’re meant to wind down. We’re meant to have our dinner six to seven PM. Stop all work before that, which in modern day life, we generally don’t do that.
Then we’re meant to wind down our home, our personal life, whatever that is, and then switch into our self-care rituals and self-hygiene rituals for a better night’s sleep. And so in Ayurveda, we teach certain habits like dry brushing and abhyang massage, full body massage with a f like with a healthy food-grade oil. And when we do that, that’s so grounding and nourishing. That’s oleation of the joints, oleation of the body. And it gives you such a higher quality of sleep.
And so that ritual anytime within the six six to ten period is wonderful. And then again, 10 to 8 at night is your bitta time of day, fire time. And honoring that is really key when we talk about inflammation and cognitive health, because that’s when we’re gonna clear lymphatic system, clear lymphatic system, rejuvenate, heal. So much happens while we’re sleeping. And what I’m learning is we’re thinking we’re sleeping well, but oftentimes we’re not. So I ask everyone to really measure their sleep.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (35:37.643)
And even go after sleep studies, like get deep into sleep, because oftentimes you think your sleep is good and it might not be good. And that’s a problem. And then you hook around into the next day. And I really think of the quality of the next day as based on that sleep hygiene and sleep pattern of the night before. And then one thing I forgot to mention is we have morning self-care rituals. So waking up any morning practice you have is wonderful around prayer meditation, you know, meditation, pranayam, deep breathing, all these things.
But after your quiet time in the morning, we recommend waking up, make sure you go to the bathroom. We want to make sure no one on earth is constipated. That’s why in Ayurveda, we usually have like a glass of water on your nightstand in a copper cup or just a covered cup. And we want you to hydrate first thing to really rehydrate your tissues and create that opportunity for peristalsis and going to the bathroom in the morning. And then we also recommend copper tongue scraper.
Oil pulling, which are some of the more popular habits out of Ayurveda that people have actually heard about. Copper tongue scraper is taking this tongue scraper, gently scraping the tongue seven to 14 times first thing in the morning, and it’s going to clear all the organs of the body. It gently removes ama or the toxin burden that accumulated overnight. Because in Ayurveda, we teach that all the organs of the body are reflected on the tongue, just like in reflexology, they’re reflected on the bottom of our feet.
So that’s a simple habit. It takes 20 seconds. It’s inexpensive too. Because once you buy your tongue scraper, it really lasts you for life. But that one habit can really help create that gut digestive fire that we were talking about and support our long-term health. And then the last one is oil pulling. Oil pulling is where we put any food grade organic oil in our mouth for five to 10, 20 minutes. And I know that sounds like a long time.
But you can do that while you’re also doing your other habits, while you’re making your morning coffee or getting in the shower for the day. But by putting that oil in your mouth, it’s going to accumulate all the toxins that accumulated overnight. When you spit it out, make sure you spit it out in your trash can, not your toilet sink or shower, because you’ll clog the pipes of your home. But we want to get rid of that toxin burden and increase that communication between oral microbiome and gut microbiome.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (37:53.376)
Lots to do. This is so fun. But I’m inspired. I I used to scrape my tongue and I don’t even know what happened to this tongue scraper or the yeah, this is exciting. And I see some people are like, well, I’ll just brush my tongue, but like there’s a reason there that’s it for the teeth, right? You did your PhD on turmeric. So we have to take advantage of of your expertise, your deep expertise here. What makes turmeric and
Dr. Shivani Gupta (37:55.234)
I know. Yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (38:02.712)
Yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (38:09.827)
Yeah.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (38:20.383)
curcumin different, the same, and so interesting biologically, particularly in this context of talking about health and inflammation and brain the cognitive function as we age.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (38:32.27)
For sure. I’m obsessed with turmeric for the brain. I think there’s so much wisdom there. There’s so much current science that shows that curcumin has a powerful role when we talk about brain health and neurocognitive health overall. To start, turmeric is a root, and out of the entire turmeric plant, only three to five percent of it is the curcuminoids.
And so a lot of people find me and they’re like, I take juice shots. I am eating my turmeric sprinkled on my chicken all the time. And I’m like, guys, that’s wonderful. Eat it like a food. It is wonderful. But kitchen culinary turmeric is very different than supplement therapeutic grade curcuminoids, given at a high potency in the right proportion. And so that’s where I love to really dive into the science because that three to five percent is really important in what it can do.
One more thing people should understand is when you’re consuming turmeric, whether in your kitchen or in a supplement form, you want to take it with black pepper or a healthy fat. Black pepper increases that absorption up to 2000%. And the healthy fat helps it cross the blood-brain barrier. And when we talk about
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (39:38.461)
And so should it not be both? It should not be black pepper and a healthy fat?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (39:43.05)
And you can do both, exactly. So for so many, I created a turmeric that has black pepper in it and I say just take it with a meal with healthy fat and you’re gonna get both benefits that way. And so yes, you can definitely do both. Now when it comes to go ahead.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (39:55.716)
Yeah. No, no, I think this is just like where we want to dive in really deeply, like dose, formulation, absorption, quality. Like how do we there’s so many, I mean, I like if you go to Amazon and put in curcumin or turmeric, so much comes up. And so how do people choose the right one at the right dose when they’re shopping? Yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (40:09.816)
Yep. Yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (40:16.238)
For sure. I mean, there’s there’s so much to say on it. So curcumin is such a powerful anti-inflammatory. It functions on the NF kappa B pathway. It impacts interleukin 6, interleukin 1 beta, TNF alpha. It works on the master switch of inflammation as opposed to NSAIDs, which just go after one pathway of inflammation. So that’s really powerful to understand. Is a lot of people who say, I have joint pain. I just take my NSAIDs every day. I’m like, you could be taking turmeric and approaching this from a very global
Holistic perspective and healing inflammation at the root. And then we don’t have to deal with this level of chronic joint pain. So that’s a big one I love about turmeric. Another one is it functions on the NRF2 pathway. So we are seeking to take so many superfoods for their antioxidant benefits. And curcumin goes in there and says, you need to make more antioxidants and tells that to ourselves. So our cells are making more glutathione and the antioxidants that we need. Then it also functions on the metformin pathway.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (40:52.071)
Yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (41:15.746)
And so it also helps when it comes to our metabolism and when it comes to our health overall. What I love about curcumin when it comes to brain is it has an impact on amyloid pack amyloid plaques, tau tangles, our microglia, BDNF. It helps with neurogenesis and mitogenesis. And so I get so excited. I’ve presented at different medical conferences on the power of this one spice to really go in there and support the body.
From underneath, like let’s get underneath the problem and lift it up. I know that when it comes to curcumin, because it has such a powerful anti-inflammatory effect, that’s why it’s being so widely studied. And that’s why you see so many supplements on the market. Everyone’s like, I should just take some turmeric. But like you said, there’s a huge, vast difference in quality. So when I finish my PhD, everyone would ask me, okay, you’re saying I can take turmeric for everything. Which one should I take?
And I went to the store and I looked, and everyone had differences on their labels. So it’s really hard just to look at the label and understand. Many products just say curcuma longa. That’s the regular turmeric plant. That’s not even the extracts from curcumin. Then we want the curcuminoids at a 95% standardization, but there’s again so much variability in quality and how people source and how they formulate.
And so finally everyone said, if you’re gonna say this to us for the rest of our lives, you should just make your own, because I don’t know who’s to take. And so I ended up creating my own formulation. And my dream was, I want to put this in the hands of every single doctor. So if you are struggling with your health and you go to orthopedics or functional medicine and they say you can take turmeric for that, then we have one that’s really built for potency at such a powerful level. And so my formulations, I made one called turmeric gold that’s following the science.
500 milligrams curcum, four milligrams black pepper extract. I added turmeric back in for the synergistic effect, but that taken twice a day is what we call the standardized dose that we see in so much of the literature. And we have seen that curcum is so powerful for neurocognitive health, cognitive function memory, all those things, amongst everything else. And then I created a second formulation that has Boswellia, dry ginger, amla, all the ancient Ayurvedic herbs that you would give.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (43:35.471)
Holistically in synergy with the curcum to create a powerful result. And what’s beautiful is we know boswelic acid functions on the five locks pathway. We know curcum is very heavy on the COX2 pathway, amongst all the others. So there’s such powerful synergy for the chronic inflammation piece with the acute inflammation piece in there. So there’s a lot of new science now that’s proving what ancient Ayurveda said to be true. And then there’s also a lot of great.
structure and science happening in India right now around the Ayurvedic botanicals, where they’re understanding that to bring those botanicals forward, we need to study them. Just like pharma would study any ingredient, we need to create those scientific studies to create that comfort and that understanding of how to use these different herbs and what the molecules are that are really performing these
Major lifts that we’re asking for when it comes to our health. So to me, I could nerd out on turmeric for hours. I get really excited. And I love when someone teaches about brain health the way you do, because there’s so much opportunity here to help people and support them. And curcumin and turmeric are one key one that I happen to love the most. But I find in Ayurveda, we have so many. Like everyone should have ginger lemon tea incorporated in their week. Ginger is so powerful for gut.
and for brain as an anti inflammatory. We should all look at Ashwagandha if it’s a fit for us. Taking some of these different adaptogens can really help us as well. But for me, turmeric will always be my number one.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (45:05.427)
Well, that was my next question. It’s like what what other foods, herbs, spices are kind of emerging out of this Ayurvedic tradition? And you mentioned ginger and ashwagandha. Are there others that you can kind of rattle off that people might want to consider for a healthy, not just inflamm inflammatory balance, but just for healthy aging?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (45:26.926)
Absolutely. I mean, there’s Brahmi. Brahmi is Bacopa Complex. So good for the brain. Tulsi is a beautiful one. Tul we call it Tulsi here in the West, but Tilsi tea is very good as an adaptogen, very calming to the system. We have one called shatavri. Here in the West, we pronounce it chhatavari. And that one I put into a tea called menopause support tea because it’s so beautiful as a rejuvenative tonic for male and female sex organs. So it really helps us during this transition of.
Perimenopause into menopause. there’s just so many beautiful herbs. Fennel, after a meal, if you have heartburn or indigestion, just put some fennel seeds in hot water and drink it. And that’ll calm and cool and soothe things down. I travel with peppermint tea for that reason. So there’s so many. Yeah.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (46:15.049)
So fun. I think, you know, I’m so fired up. And I think one issue that comes up in the wellness space these days is that people can end up with a list of 47 things they’re supposed to do before breakfast, right? And for someone listening who maybe is feeling overwhelmed, can you narrow this down to like the three highest impact things that you would have someone do to reduce their inflammatory, like general inflammatory burden?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (46:44.206)
Absolutely. Hold on one sec.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (46:46.17)
and we can edit.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (46:48.27)
I took off coughing there.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (46:52.351)
I did it.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (46:54.094)
when it comes to our morning routine, if I don’t have a ton of time, I just you use my tongue scraper. That’s it. I keep it simple because it’s such a good habit. It’ll do so much for you. And then you don’t have to focus on everything else. So yeah, sometimes we can keep it simple. It doesn’t have to be that complicated. That and move in nature even for five minutes. And nature has you, and you’re gonna have the benefits of it. So we can simplify this down.
I think of it as on certain days I can do everything, and on certain days I can only do my real bare minimum. I think what happens though is sometimes we only do the bare minimum forever, and we need to come back to expanding it back towards all the things we need. But yes, a circadian walk in the morning and evening is so powerful. A tongue scraper does so much in terms of detoxification. And I have a simple habit called tea time is me time that I keep a couple times a day.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (47:30.047)
Yeah.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (47:50.701)
As just this opportunity to pause and tune in and tune into my intuition and use it as a mindful moment to just drop into my parasympathetic. Sometimes I tend to be just in fight or flight stress, running at 200 miles an hour. And so this one simple habit is vagus nerve toning and helps us just settle down and be at peace and allow the body to heal, right? If we’re in rest and digest, we’re in rest, digest, and heal. And so much of the Ayurvedic wisdom is saying, look.
I’m here to give you those tools. You just have to make space for them and it’s that easy.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (48:25.351)
I love it. y I wanna end this on another personal note by asking about what brings you the most joy right now. And what are you hoping to still be doing when you’re ninety years old?
Dr. Shivani Gupta (48:38.954)
I love that question. You know what brings me the most joy right now is time alone in my backyard, just soaking up some peace and some nature. I find the last year or two being out on a book tour the way I have, life just got so intense. And it gets really excited, exciting to have so much momentum. But the only way I have to slow that momentum down and collect my peace in my case is my tea time is me time. It really forces me to slow down.
You can’t chug hot coffee or hot tea, right? So you’re gonna pause. And that pause is just long enough for me to say, please put down your iPhone. Please just tune into self, take a deep breath, and let’s just check in with self. Let’s use this moment for us, for me, not for the world. That’s my first. And then my second is 90 years from now, or when I am 90, no, not 90 years from now, when I turn 90, my wish is to keep doing this.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (49:25.115)
good.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (49:35.394)
to get to write books about Ayurveda, to keep finding ways, finding ways to teach it in a way that people will apply it to themselves. I’m sure I’m gonna keep growing and changing with the Ayurvedic wisdom. And so my dream is just to get to keep doing this, to get to keep teaching it to the world. Cause this is my favorite thing that I get to do.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (49:52.605)
How we
What fun. I love it. And it it brings that purpose and meaning, right? Which also I think helps us tap into that joy. Shivani, thank you so much for being here. I I just love this reminder of some of the these powerful tools. I feel so fired up about tongue scraping and thinking about my circadian rhythm in a slightly different way.
Just healthy aging tools, they aren’t necessarily complicated, right? It’s about kind of returning to the common sense and they’re embedded in the rhythms of everyday life, of how we eat and sleep and move and manage stress and connect with other people and care for our gut and creating this beautiful space for restoration, the way that you just described. I I also really appreciate this bridge you’ve created between thousands of years of Ayurvedic wisdom and our evolving understanding in the West of inflammation and metabolism and brain health.
And you’re you’re like this translator between them. And I I just I love, you know, through you getting to tap into some of that and be inspired by it. For everyone listening, I really hope today’s conversation has left you feeling not with another overwhelming list of things to do, but with a few simple places to start or some reminders of things to go back to, these small choices that are repeated consistently that become our routine, they really shift the trajectory of how we age.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (50:56.142)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Heather Sandison, ND (51:14.489)
And and so I hope that you’ve been inspired the way I have today. Dr. Shivani Gupta, thank you for joining me today on the Think Well H well.
Dr. Shivani Gupta (51:22.926)
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
